--> Hamsl fragen!

In Antwort auf:

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Aber wie reisen diese Signale, wenns ja doch kein Medium gibt?

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Ach, jez werd mal nicht knauserig...^^

In Antwort auf:

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Müsste der eigentlich nicht nach GAR NICHTS geklungen haben? Schließlich gibts ja kein Medium, über das sich der Schall ausbreiten kann, oder?

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interessant ist es trotzdem..ich weis ja nicht wie seriös die quelle ist, aber ich glaube schon dass sich der was dabei gedacht hat.... natürlich kann eine kleine mp3 datei sowas nie wiedergeben..nur stellt euch das vor, in einem unendlichen ausmaß mit unendlicher lautstärke..da bleibt kein auge trocken und kein trommelfell ganz...^^

In Antwort auf:

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Am Anfang des Universums war ja die ganze Materie (Wasserstoff, Helium und Spuren von Deuterium) sehr symmetrisch verteilt, die ersten Sterne (Generation III Sterne) haben sich erst viel später "herauskristallisiert", also von dem her gab es schon ein Medium. Vakuum gab es da noch nicht!

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In Antwort auf:

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Ja nee, iss klar! Nur wie bitte kann dann die ganze Materie an einen einzigen, non-dimensionalen Punkt komprimiert sein...?

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Ich wusste nicht, wohin ich das sonst posten sollte.

Weil wir hier über Religion diskutiert haben usw. wollte ich das hier posten, weil ich es sehr eindrucksvoll und schön gefunden hab.
Es handelt sich eigentlich um ein Video mit Sprecherstimme: Science Saved My Soul by Phil Hellenes. Das Video kann man vernachlässigen, aber hier der Text:



“Three summers ago, I was staying in a caravan a long way from the nearest city. It was usually pitch black at night. I had given my word that I would not smoke inside, so at 1 a.m. I stepped outside for a cigarette.

After a few minutes of standing in the darkness, I realized that I could see my hand quite clearly—something I’d noticed that I could not do on previous nights—so I looked up, expecting to see the glow of the full moon, but the moon was nowhere in sight.

Instead, there was a long glowing cloud directly overhead. The Romans called it the Via Galactica (the Road of Milk); today we call it the Milky Way. For those who missed the lesson at school that day, the basic facts are these:

Remembering that 1 light year is equivalent to 6 trillion miles, our galaxy has a total diameter of somewhere around 100 thousand light years. Our Sun is located towards the edge of one of the galaxy’s spiral arms—about 26 thousand light years out from the central bulge of the galaxy. It takes 200 to 250 million years for the Sun to complete one orbit of the central bulge. Surrounding the galaxy, above and below the disc in a spherical halo, there are approximately 200 globular clusters which may contain up to a million stars each. The Milky Way itself contains 200 billion stars, give or take.

These numbers are essential to understanding what a galaxy is, but when contemplating them, some part of the human mind protests that it cannot be so. Yet an examination of the evidence brings you to the conclusion that it is. And if you take that conclusion out on a clear dark night and look up, you might see something that will change your life.

This is what a galaxy looks like. From the inside. From the suburbs of our Sun.

Through binoculars, for every star you can see with your naked eye you can see 100 around it, all suspended in a gray blue mist. But through a modest telescope, if you wait for your eyes to adjust to the dark and get the focus just right… you will see that mist for what it really is: More stars. Like dust, fading into what tastes like infinity.

But you’ve got to have the knowledge. Seeing is only half of it.

That night three years ago, I knew a small part of what’s out there—the kinds of things, the scale of things, the age of things, the violence and destruction, appalling energy, hopeless gravity, and the despair of distance—but I feel safe, because I know my world is protected by the very distance that others fear. It’s like the universe screams in your face, “Do you know what I am? How grand I am? How old I am? Can you even comprehend what I am? What are you, compared to me?” And when you know enough science, you can just smile up at the universe and reply, “Dude, I am you.”

When I looked at the galaxy that night, I knew the faintest twinkle of starlight was a real connection between my comprehending eye along a narrow beam of light to the surface of another sun. The photons my eyes detect (the light I see, the energy with which my nerves interact) came from that star. I thought I could never touch it, yet something from it crosses the void and touches me. I might never have known. My eyes saw only a tiny point of light, but my mind saw so much more.

I see the invisible bursts of gamma radiation from giant stars converting into pure energy by their own mass. The flashes that flashed from the far side of the universe long before Earth had even formed. I can see the invisible microwave glow of the background radiation leftover from the Big Bang. I see stars drifting aimlessly at hundreds of kilometers per second, and the space-time curving around them. I can even see millions of years into the future.

That blue twinkle will blow up one day, sterilizing any nearby solar systems in an apocalypse that makes the wrath of human gods seem pitiful by comparison—yet it was from such destruction that I was formed. Stars must die so that I can live.

I stepped out of a supernova… And so did you.

In light of this inarguable fact (this hard-earned knowledge, this partial but informative truth), what place then in the 21st century and beyond for the magical claims of organized religion?

The first religions were primitive by any definition. For reasons of limited population, communication, and plain old geography, they never grew to be anything other than a local concern. But religions mutate in time and grow in sophistication as each generation of holy men learn what works and what doesn’t. What makes people obedient and what causes rebellion. What ideas people can easily escape and which will haunt them until they have to pray just to stop the nagging fear.

When populations grew due to the slow but steady growth of knowledge, as if confronted by a bumper harvest, the religions went into an arms race with each other. From gods of wind and thunder and sea, the threats, incentives, and claims of power escalate until every dominant organized religion has a god that is all-powerful, all-loving, all-seeing, and words like “infinity” and “eternity” are deployed cheaply while all other words are open to abuse until they mean exactly what the religions want them to mean.

That night under the Milky Way, I who experienced it cannot call the experience a religious experience, for I know it was not religious in any way. I was thinking about facts and physics, trying to visualize what is, not what I would like there to be. There’s no word for such experiences that come through scientific and not mystical revelation. The reason for that is that every time someone has such a “mindgasm”, religion steals it simply by saying, “Ahh, you had a religious experience.” And spiritualists will pull the same shit. And both camps get angry when an atheist like me tells you that I only ever had these experiences after rejecting everything supernatural. But I do admit that after such experiences (the moments when reality hits me like a winning lottery ticket) I often think about religion… and how lucky I am that I am not religious. You want to learn something about God? Okay, this is one galaxy.

If God exists, God made this. Look at it. Face it. Accept it. Adjust to it, because this is the truth and it’s probably not going to change very much. This is how God works. God would probably want you to look at it. To learn about it. To try to understand it. But if you can’t look—if you won’t even try to understand—what does that say about your religion? As Bishop Lancelot Andrewes once said, “The nearer the church, the further from God.”

Maybe you need to run. Away from the mosque. Away from the church. Away from the priests and the Imams. Away from the Books to have any chance of finding God. Squeeze a fraction of a galaxy into your mind and then you’ll have a better idea of what you’re looking for. To even partially comprehend the scale of a single galaxy is to almost disappear. And when you remember all the other galaxies, you shrink 100 billion times smaller still—but then you remember what you are. The same facts that made you feel so insignificant also tell you how you got here. It’s like you become more real—or maybe the universe becomes more real. You suddenly fit. You suddenly belong. You do not have to bow down. You do not have to look away. In such moments, all you have to do is remember to keep breathing.

The body of a newborn baby is as old as the cosmos. The form is new and unique, but the materials are 13.7 billion years old, processed by nuclear fusion in stars, fashioned by electromagnetism. Cold words for amazing processes. And that baby was you. Is you. You’re amazing. Not only alive, but with a mind. What fool would exchange this for every winning lottery ticket ever drawn? When I compare what scientific knowledge has done for me and what religion tried to do to me, I sometimes literally shiver.

Religions tell children they might go to hell and they must believe, while science tells children they came from the stars and presents reasoning they can believe. I’ve told plenty of young kids about stars and atoms and galaxies and the Big Bang and I have never seen fear in their eyes—only amazement and curiosity. They want more. Why do kids swim in it and adults drown in it? What happens to reality between our youngest years and adulthood? Could it be that someone promised us something so beautiful that our universe seems dull, empty, even frightening by comparison? It might still be made by a Creator of some kind but religion has made it look ugly. Religion paints everything not of itself as unholy and sinful while it beautifies and dignifies its errors, lies, and bigotry (like a pig wearing the finest robes). In its efforts to stop us facing reality, religion has become the reality we cannot face. Look at what religion has made us do, to ourselves and to each other. Religion stole our love and our loyalty and gave it to a book—to a telepathic father that tells his children that love means kneeling before him. Now I’m not a parent, but I say that those kids are gonna turn out messed up—it cannot be healthy for a child or a species.

We were told long ago and for a long time that there was only the Earth—that we were the center of everything. That turned out to be wrong. We still haven’t fully adjusted. We’re still in shock. The universe is not what we expected it to be. It’s not what they told us it would be. This cosmic understanding is all new to us. But there’s nothing to fear. We’re still special. We’re still blessed. And there might yet be a heaven, but it isn’t going to be perfect. And we’re going to have to build it ourselves.

If I have something that could be called a soul that needed saving, then science saved it… from religion.

There are too many people, to many moments to thank.

Some people find it, really, very depressing that the universe can only support life for another 30 billion years… 30. Billion. Years. Are you fucking kidding me?”

das war schön!

Irgendwie überzeugt es einen in Summe stärker, als man zuvor dachte. Also der Einstieg ist ganz nett usw. Aber spätestens bei den Kindern denk ich mir: Scheiss auf Religion. Ich kann meinen Gschroppn mal erklären, dass sie aus Sternenstaub gemacht sind... ich mein: WOHOOoOOOOOOooo!!!!!11 11

Zitat

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The first religions were primitive by any definition. For reasons of limited population, communication, and plain old geography, they never grew to be anything other than a local concern. But religions mutate in time and grow in sophistication as each generation of holy men learn what works and what doesn’t. What makes people obedient and what causes rebellion. What ideas people can easily escape and which will haunt them until they have to pray just to stop the nagging fear.

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Ja. Er sagt es, Russell sagt es: Relgion gründet sich vor allem und in erster Linie auf die Angst. In zweiter Linie darauf, die Menschen "obedient" zu machen. Ich weiß, dass da nicht jeder mit mir übereinstimmt, aber deswegen glaub ich auch, dass die Antwort auf folgende Frage "Why do kids swim in it and adults drown in it? What happens to reality between our youngest years and adulthood?" ebenfalls "Angst" ist; und zwar eine Angst, die Kinder nicht kennen, Erwachsene aber schon: Zukunftsangst, und in der Folge die Angst vor dem Tod. Angst davor, dass die Religion wahr ist. Angst davor, gerichtet zu werden, Angst vor der Hölle. Ich hab im Altenheim erlebt, wie Menschen eine 180° Wende machen, wenn sie kurz davor sind, zu sterben. All diese Furcht hat die Religion selbst in der Menschen Köpfe gepflanzt. Das tu ich meinen Kindern ned an. Ebensowenig werde ich sie das Knien lehren, egal, vor wem.

Hitti, hast du nicht noch vor einem Jahr gemeint, du willst deine Kinder im Christentum aufziehen, sodass ihnen keine soziale Benachteiligung zuteil wird?

Das könnte sein, wenn ich auch sicher nicht wirklich überzeugt davon war. Immerhin habe ich in diesem Fall meine Meinung eindeutig geändert. Ich werde meine Kinder definitiv nicht christlich erziehen, auch nicht im sozialen Kontext.

Edit: Ich hab gerade meinen diesbezüglichen Beitrag im Thread "Kindeserziehung" gelesen. Ich kann viele meiner damaligen Aussagen heute nicht mehr unterschreiben, bin ja mittlerweile auch aus der Kirche ausgetreten. Ich habe heute durchaus ein Problem damit, kirchliche Bräuche auszuleben; zumindest insofern, als dass ich mich nicht durch die Taufe meines Kindes durchheucheln könnte, was Glaubensbekenntnis und Co. betrifft. Ich will mit alldem nichts zu tun haben, und ich würd auch mein Kind damit ned vor dem Alter der Religionsreife belasten wollen. Ich hab mich von der Kirche in dieser Hinsicht im letzten Jahr noch deutlicher distanziert.

Dann stehen wir auch in diesem Punkt finally auf gleicher Meinung.

wobei ich dabei wissen möchte: Würdest du Weihnachten und Ostern feiern?

Denn das würde ich schon. Ich habe sehr glückliche Erinnerungen an diese Feste, sehr sehr sehr glückliche Kindheitserinnerungen. Eine sehr intensive, glückliche Erinnerung war das erste Weihnachtsfest, in dem ich allein in die Kirche ging. Auch ein spezielles Osterfest, in dem zu Ostern noch Schnee lag, als wir aus der Kirche kamen, liegt mir ungeheuer positiv im Gedächtnis.

Ich könnte mit meinen Kindern nicht in die Kirche gehen. Ich will meine Kinder nicht religiös erziehen, ich will sie vom Konzept "Gott" so weit weghalten wie nur möglich, ich finde, das ist eine Pflicht, die man als Elternteil hat, um die sichere geistige und emotionale Entwicklung seiner Kinder zu gewährleisten.
Ich möchte ihnen aber auch nicht das vorenthalten, was ich schönes in meiner Kindheit erlebt habe. Weihnachten wird es also ganz zweifellos geben. Nur die Frage ist, in welchem Kontext.

Ja, würde ich natürlich. Würde man alle religiösen Feiertage aus dem Kalender streichen, würden nicht sehr viele übrig bleiben. Ich seh Feiertage aber eher im gesellschaftlichen als im religiösen Kontext, und da ich sie eigentlich ganz nett finde, sehe ich keinen Grund, sie ned zu feiern.